Curse

twicky_kid · Aug 20, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Until they fix expertise every new class with an dmg skill or weapon is going to deadly in a rangers hands.

They can change expertise to fix that imbalance without messing up its orginal intention. Just lower the it down to 1.5-2% energy reduction for 2nd class skills. That would not make much of a change but it would take more skill to run rather than spamming every skill on your bar over and over.

That way the rangers skills still get the full 3% while not making things like touchers, thumpers, and javalins stronger than what their Primary classes could do.

EternalTempest · Aug 20, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Anet has and will change anything in reguards to skills / equipment / armor if they feel it's being used in a way they feel is "cheating". They also stated that if something becomes "stale" in pvp for a long enough time and a future change or new stuff won't fix or the community doesn't move on from the FOTM they will change things to "shake" things up.

Anet has been doing this since GW inception Beta events, to 6 months latter and after new chapters.

Anet HAS to keep the game dynamic or IMHO GW would die eventally. The fact is also when anyone uses a specific set of skills to so something, and it gets changed, there going to feel a little put out but adapt and move on.

This is coming from a fire ele in PvE and still playing fire ele in PvE after they change how AOE damage was drastically alterted.

Loch · Aug 20, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Until they fix expertise every new class with an dmg skill or weapon is going to deadly in a rangers hands.

They can change expertise to fix that imbalance without messing up its orginal intention. Just lower the it down to 1.5-2% energy reduction for 2nd class skills. That would not make much of a change but it would take more skill to run rather than spamming every skill on your bar over and over.

That way the rangers skills still get the full 3% while not making things like touchers, thumpers, and javalins stronger than what their Primary classes could do.

My thoughts exactly.

As well, most people on these boards don't understand that the reasoning behind skill changes has nothing to do with their farming builds.

Alexi Jotun · Aug 20, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

You guys just dont understand how simple it is to counter a touch ranger...

Wild Blow- renders their pathetic defences useless.
Signet of Humility- No more Offering of Blood.
Blackout- hack and slash away...

The possibilities are endless.

Kaida the Heartless · Aug 20, 2006, 10:58 PM // 22:58

I'm glad my post is liked :P

I understand fully how game dynamics work. By why not make some instances work in this fashion below?

Okay, instead of nerfing every good skill, why not buff up a skill/some skills that is/are never used to counter it? There are tons of available skills that are never even considered in any build that could use a boost. This way, the build is nerfed in the sense that there is a counter, but the build can still be run effectively. Granted, this wont work in every instance, but maybe they should give it a go?

And to those of you who failed to read my first post, I said Touch Rangers are what finally convinced me to stop pvp. They were not the only thing that helped influence this decision. Plus, why should I have to modify half of my skill bar and/or secondary to stop one build? That's rediculous. It's been said before, the natural synergies of that build are too powerful. Now, let's not make this another touch ranger thread.

And I was just disappointed at the EoE bomb, more or less. It really just looks like a cheap fix for the AB exploitation. They picked a really bad time to change that skill.

And I don't mind thinking of or playing new builds, its just that it seems pointless when I know it could very well get a nice thrashing with the stick at some point in the future. Granted I could move on to another build, but at that rate (with the constant additions of new classes and skills) arn't all skills going to be nerfed in a cycle?

It just seems that Anet could be a little more creative as far as fixing these things goes.

Sol Deathgard: Post constructively or dont post at all.

Avarre: lol. D2... ahhh, those were the days...

Sekkira · Aug 20, 2006, 11:05 PM // 23:05

I want to know why people think Expertise is overpowered.

Also, why people don't understand the concept of kiting if something that requires them to be adjacent to do damage is chasing them.

Riken Chrono · Aug 21, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26

omfg nerf frenzy and mending plz..and heal sig

ateddybear · Aug 21, 2006, 02:51 AM // 02:51

OMg you don't see the yu-gi-oh creators nerfing the god cards just because they are overpowered do you? Nope because its how you think and what you do is what counts.

Kaida the Heartless · Aug 21, 2006, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Kiting doesn't work vs. dodge and zojun's haste. Unless you also have a constant speed boost, kiting barely works as a form of damage mitigation.

Frenzy does need to be nerfed. Only double damage? Come on. :P

twicky_kid · Aug 21, 2006, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

I want to know why people think Expertise is overpowered.

Also, why people don't understand the concept of kiting if something that requires them to be adjacent to do damage is chasing them.

You tell me what other attribute or skill will give you 30-48% energy cost of all your skills no matter what the attribute or proffesion?

The only skill that even comes close to that is elemental attunement and its an elite.

The only primary attribute that is stronger than expertise is the dervish's mystism which will be changed (most likely 3-4 energy return).

Rangers can use a hammer with a pet and deal more dmg than a hammer war with a pet. They can use spears and deal more dmg than a paragon.

With the 2-3 months between skill updates gimmicks are going to run this game until they make updates faster.

TheMadKingGeorge · Aug 21, 2006, 04:59 AM // 04:59

i can understand fixing / nerfing new skills but skills which have been around longer than the nerf team has passed puberty is wrong sheer wrong...easy way to make touchers uselss make touch skills spells is it that RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing hard. i mean seriously foc gets nerfed but touch is well untouched

TheMadKingGeorge · Aug 21, 2006, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

You tell me what other attribute or skill will give you 30-48% energy cost of all your skills no matter what the attribute or proffesion?

The only skill that even comes close to that is elemental attunement and its an elite.

The only primary attribute that is stronger than expertise is the dervish's mystism which will be changed (most likely 3-4 energy return).

Rangers can use a hammer with a pet and deal more dmg than a hammer war with a pet. They can use spears and deal more dmg than a paragon.

With the 2-3 months between skill updates gimmicks are going to run this game until they make updates faster.

Preach on Preach On You Speak The Truth

Sekkira · Aug 21, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

You tell me what other attribute or skill will give you 30-48% energy cost of all your skills no matter what the attribute or proffesion?

The only skill that even comes close to that is elemental attunement and its an elite.

The only primary attribute that is stronger than expertise is the dervish's mystism which will be changed (most likely 3-4 energy return).

Rangers can use a hammer with a pet and deal more dmg than a hammer war with a pet. They can use spears and deal more dmg than a paragon.

With the 2-3 months between skill updates gimmicks are going to run this game until they make updates faster.

I fail to understand how you relate expertise being directly proportional to damage. You nerf expertise, you cripple the entire class.

Every class has their own form of energy management, the monks have it in Divine Favor which gives them more bang for their buck, Warriors in their adrenaline to not use any at all, Mesmers in their Inspiration line to give them energy back, Elementalists in their Glyphs and attunements to nullify the cost and give return for spells, Necromancers in their Soul Reaping for dead things, Assassins in their Critical Strikes while attacking and Ritualists in their Spawning power which is similar in some ways to Divine Favor.

You rearrange expertise, you rearrange an entire class's energy management. On top of that, you have Ferocious Strike which iirc is used for Thumpers, the attack that gives you energy and adrenaline. Now tell me that wasn't intended to be used in conjunction with Warrior skills. With the spammable Irresistable Blow, it was almost as if the Thumper was intended.

As well as that, I'd like to know how you relate expertise directly proportional to damage. A Ranger with a pet being able to deal more damage than a Warrior with a pet? 16BM compared to 16 HM? I'm sure it's close but I doubt Rangers come out superior on that. If someone feels like doing the math to prove me wrong then by all means go ahead, I have no intention at the moment. Even so, the case stands that it's 16BM + 12 HM compared to 16HM + 12 BM, expertise only reduced the energy cost of the energy based skills used. It doesn't do anything to the damage.

shardfenix · Aug 21, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

(touch rangers being the final "snapping point").

Touch rangers got a nerf? Why am I still getting pwned in 12v12 / random arenas by them!?!?!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

a perfectly balanced skill (EoE?) is tagged for no apparent reason

They didn't nerf eoe. They fixed it. Previously, it was causing cheating when players from one faction would fight on the other factions side and kill everybody before the timer starts in order to give their guild more faction easily. Instead of simply fixing the problem by preventing points from going up before a match starts, arenanet decided to nerf a whole build that never wins anyway, because arenanet is smart [/heavy sarcasm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Other times, Anet has completely missed (and continues to miss) those skills in which need to be nerfed. I just want to know if anyone else here is getting upset with the constant "swinging of the bat" like I am.

because arenanet is smart [/heavy sarcasm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Now I know this sounds like a rant, and it is somewhat. But I really just want to know if anyone is as aggitated as I am. /agree or /disagree pls!

I am. I used to like pvp because everything was, to some degree, balanced. The only thing that was really bad was hammer damage in small arenas (one warrior alone should never be able to kill one healer alone in any rpg), but in gvg and HA, they were fine. Since factions, arenanet decided to make their game suck ass, for whatever their reasons. Maybe they wanted noobs to be able to win by doing this:
c, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, c, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2 (touch rangers)
or
c, spacebar, c, spacebar (iway)
at least they fixed shardway:
c, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
Apparently arenanet only wants you to win if you're smart enough to tap 2 buttons randomly with no skill invilved.
In any case, I have stopped playing guild wars until they fix everything. And no I will not buy future expansions until that is done (based on how long it takes arenanet to realize how stupid they are, a good skill balance will take 57.296 years to implement.)

dab · Aug 21, 2006, 05:30 AM // 05:30

A Thumper has more DPS than a Hammer War because a Thumper can spam Tiger's Fury.

Maria The Princess · Aug 21, 2006, 05:31 AM // 05:31

a skill that REALY needs a nurf? Spitful spirit!!!

casting? 2 seconds (PLZZZZ)
cost? 15 energy (ANET, you kidding?!!!)
recharge? 10 seconds (ZOMFG)

NO AOE!!!! EVERY HIT DOES DAMAGE!!!

now, compare to the poor ele thats triggering his 25e, 5 sec casting Meteor shower, just to make the mob run away....

never realised how overpowered SS is untill i played with a necro

shardfenix · Aug 21, 2006, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Every class has their own form of energy management...You rearrange expertise, you rearrange an entire class's energy management.

That's fine, because right now rangers have infinite energy. The only thing they can't do is cast spells, oh wait, they have necro touch skills to make up for that. Life transfer for 30 please!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

16BM compared to 16 HM?

If you're a thumper trying to kill a warrior, try a new build because you have no idea what you're doing. Its not about damage. It's about warriors having restrictions on their power levels because they only have 20-28 energy, whereas thumpers have attack skills that cost 2 and do 20+ damage extra.

While we're on the topic of broken weapons, which genius at arenanet decided to make scythes have the highest damage output AND aoe? I think he needs to take all his math clases again...or for the first time.

Zinger314 · Aug 21, 2006, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

a skill that REALY needs a nurf? Spitful spirit!!!

casting? 2 seconds (PLZZZZ)
cost? 15 energy (ANET, you kidding?!!!)
recharge? 10 seconds (ZOMFG)

NO AOE!!!! EVERY HIT DOES DAMAGE!!!

now, compare to the poor ele thats triggering his 25e, 5 sec casting Meteor shower, just to make the mob run away....

never realised how overpowered SS is untill i played with a necro

Meteor Shower knocks down. Mmkay.

Kaida the Heartless · Aug 21, 2006, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Honestly, if they nerfed SS, i would quit. Maybe SS would nerf Anet. Afterall, it is supposed to be Spiteful, right? In it's defense, I would have to say that its still pretty balanced. It's only powerful when farming due to the adjacent foes area limit. Yes?

Sekkira · Aug 21, 2006, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

That's fine, because right now rangers have infinite energy. The only thing they can't do is cast spells, oh wait, they have necro touch skills to make up for that. Life transfer for 30 please!

Kiting. It mitigates damage. I don't care if you say they have speedboosts to catch up to you, it only lasts so long and it's not spammable if you're kiting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

If you're a thumper trying to kill a warrior, try a new build because you have no idea what you're doing. Its not about damage. It's about warriors having restrictions on their power levels because they only have 20-28 energy, whereas thumpers have attack skills that cost 2 and do 20+ damage extra.

Once again, I ask where the 20+ damage came from.